ВАКСИНИ - ТЕМА САМО за вредата от тях - тема 35

Мдам, има нещо вярно. Особено като се цитират мнения на доктори живели миналия век и лекинко се пропуска да се спомене това.

 Fower_DG .Вариола минор  причинява smallpox-едра шарка, Вариола майор- причинява сифилис- по цитати от медицински източници.

"Най-често срещаната идея е, че ваксиниа вирусът, вирусът на кравешката шарка и вирусът на вариолата (причинителят на едра шарка) са били всички получени от общ родов вирус. Също така има спекулации, че ваксиния вирус първоначално е бил изолиран от коне..."

+1

Наистина къде я четеш тази информация? Сифилис се причинява от бактерия - Treponema pallidum. Не от вирус, както твърдиш.

Това, че Vaccinia virus, Variola virus И Cowpox virus принадлежат на едно семейство го казах, но цитатът ти е в разрив с поста ти от преди няколко страници, както и с този коментар. И наистина моля те, покажи ми този източник на информация, защото съм на 100 % сигурна, че навсякъде пише едно - сифилис се причинява от трепонема.

The wishmaster - Мерси!!

....Да и освен това ако инжектираш гной от пистулата на крава, в човек той придобива имунитет срещу едра шарка. /според бащаа на ваксините/
Кравешката шарка представляват пистули по вимето на кравите, които се появяват само  в млекодаен период-когато са доени....Едрата шарка, не признава пол, нито пък определено място от тялото...
Flower_DG,почваш да наглееш, изопачавайки думите ми и приписвайки си мои неща за твои. Нямам намерение да си губя времето с троли.

Това в каква връзка беше не знам... Дженър е използвал гной от пустули на болна от КРАВЕШКА вариола, за да излекува детето Джеймс. Виж, ако ти си била там по това време и знаеш друга версия на историята, сподели, ако обичаш.

Обясних как протича кравешката вариола при ЧОВЕКА. Не намерих за нужно да споделям как протича при кравата- не вярвам, че сред пишещите тук има такива все пак  А последното изречение няма никаква връзка с останалата част. Естествено, че вариолата засяга еднакво и двата пола и е генерализиран обрив...

Ти била ли си там да видиш как протича , а резултатите от ваксините ги виждаме днес.

Z, ти цитираш грешно историята, за това те питам дали си била там, за да го видиш, ако не ме разбра.
А и още чакам източници на '' фарма медицината'', в които пише, че сифилис се причинява от Variola major, а не от Treponema pallidum...

В миналото хората не са знаели, за това е наречен вариола майор-сифилисът...Аз в Теория на вирусите не вярвам, вярвам на Creighon и исторически факти...
Едрата шарка е инфекциозно заболяване, причинено от два вирусни варианта, Variola major и Variola minor. [3] Болестта е известна и с латинските имена variola или variola vera, получени от varius ("петна") или varus ("пъпка"). Болестта първоначално е била известна на английски като "шарка" [1] или "червена чума"; терминът "едра шарка" се използва за пръв път във Великобритания през 15 век, за да разграничи вариолата от "голямата шарка" (сифилис) [4]. Последният естествен случай на едра шарка (Variola minor) е диагностициран на 26 октомври 1977 г. [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

От мен- едрата шарка е  наречена вариола около 15 век .Но е пoзнаtа под същото име-едра шарка  дълго преди това Варицела е считана за средна форма на Едра шарка пак около това време.

Чакай, чакай, че съвсем ме обърка 😁😁 По-нагоре написа, че вариола майор причинява сифилис, сега твърдиш, че вариола майор се нарича сифилис.. Последно кое от двете е, защото за да защитиш един довод, даваш съвсем различен, напълно отричащ първия, което е в пълен разрив с логическото мислене.

Значи, твърдиш, че не вярваш в теория на вирусите, но цитираш източници на '' фарма медицината'', говорещи за вируси, след което пак ги намесваш.. Някак си не е логически издържано.

Lechugitka, на теб сериозно ти липсва възпитание. Само пишеш колко са неграмотни и куп други разни обидни думи " женички които влизат във форума" визирайки и вероятно мен. Аз съм майка на 1- годишно момиченце, досега с всички бити ваксини. Започнах сериозно да се информирам на тези тема, когато дечицата на две мои близки пострадаха сериозно. И не, не са ги лекували с хомеопатия, едното момченце постъпи 12 часа след симптомите си в болница, лекуваха го но хроничната диария си остана. Другото, пак момченце е всеки месец с бронхоспазми. Кажи ми как може да се обръщаш по този начин към родители които търсят информация, искат да разберат и двете страни на нещата. Всеки родител иска най-доброто за детето си. Вместо само да се обиждате можеше да се описва полезна информация която би помогнала да се направи правилен и инфирмиран избор.

ORIGIN  OF  THE  NAME  "POX."                       29
But in France the name was soon fixed as verole, and in England as pox. Thus in a petition of Simon Fish to Henry VIII., in 1530, against Romish priests, "the Pockes " is the term used.1 The name had become a by-word in Shakespeare's time, and was clearly used with reference to the opprobrious disease that had been known in the country for a century. If it was now and then used for the smallpox in the 17th century, it was only a brief aberration from the common usage. A current notion of the present day, that "the pox" originally meant the smallpox, depends upon a curious error which I shall deal with in a note.2
1   "These be they that corrupt the whole generation of mankind in your realm, that catch the Pockes of one woman and bear them to another,"  etc.    Cited by Beckett,  Phil. Trans, xxx.  (1718), p. 845.    In  Fabyan's Chronicle,  which is supposed to have been written not long before his death in 1512, it is stated (Ellis's edition, p. 653) that Edward IV., during an expedition against the Scots in  1463,  "was then vysyted with the syknesse of pockys."     Of course the name given to the king's malady by Fabyan is of no value as diagnosis ; but he would hardly have used the word at all if it had not been then in men's mouths, as it well might be in the very years of his writing, the disease, which was certainly called "the Pockes "in 1530 (as above), having invaded England about 1495-7.
2   In  Webster's, Todd's, and other dictionaries it is stated that pox formerly meant the smallpox, and "was often employed in this signification in  imprecations and exclamations."   This absurd error is traceable to a note by Dr. Farmer, the commentator on Shakespeare.  In Love's Labour's Lost, v. 2, a lady in waiting exclaims, "A pox of that jest!" whereon Theobald remarks that the language is unbecoming in a lady.  Farmer replies, "But there needs no alarm—the smallpox only is alluded to,"  inasmuch as the jest to which the lady replied was, "Oh that your face were not so full of O's!"  i.e., pitted with the smallpox.    Even if that be the

The lues venerea was called in English the pockys, pockes, or pox for a reason that the student of its history finds no great difficulty in making out, although the name cannot but seem inappropriate to those who have heard of the disease only in its modern forms. A striking character of the great epidemic which began in 1494 was the general eruption on the skin; in some of the contemporary accounts that eruption (now reckoned a "secondary") overshadows all else in the disease. The contemporary accounts were collected in two volumes published at Venice by Luisini in  1566.1    In   another

meaning, it was a special conceit for the occasion, or a play upon the well-known ordinary Shakespearian use of the word. Farmer supports his comment by two references to contemporary usage. Davison, he says, has a canzonet "on his lady's sickness of the poxe."  Now, in all the three editions of Francis Davison's Poetical Rapsodie, published in his lifetime (1602,1608, and 1611), the title of the poem is "Upon his Ladies sicknesse of the Small Pocks''; but in a pirated and careless reprint of 1621, from which Farmer had quoted, the word "small" is omitted by the printer, and the name of "Th. Spilman" is also omitted from the foot of the poem, so that Farmer assigned it to Davison, although that poet had been careful to distinguish it, along with poems by Sir John Davies and others in his volume, from his own compositions. That Davison knew the correct use of the French terms also, is clear from the heading to his translation of an epigram by Martial, about drinking out of the same glass—"A Monsieur Naso, verole." Farmer's other reference is to an undoubted use by Dr. Donne, in a letter to his sister, of the Pox for the Smallpox. I have found another similar usage by Donne in a letter to Sir R. D., in which he says of "my L. Harrington,'1 that " now they know all his disease to be the Pox, and Measels mingled." But Donne's 17th century abbreviation is exceptional, and never became established.
1. De morbo Gallico, 2 torn.   Venetiis, 1566.


WHY THE  POX WAS  SO  CALLED.                     31
of them (by Le Maire) we read that the disease in Savoy was called "la clavela," from the eruption of hard knots, pimples, blebs, etc., on the skin, la clavelee being the modern French name given to smallpox of sheep for the same reason. In the monograph by Nicholas Massa, of Venice, which was long regarded as the most authoritative, although Hensler questions its value as first-hand testimony,1 pustulœ diversœ et aliœ; infectiones cutaneœ is the first line in his formal definition of the disease. In his fifth chapter, devoted to the Pustulœ, he says they occurred over the whole body—on the limbs, on the face and head, and amongst the roots of the hair. In his particular description we find such terms as elevated, tumid, moist ; red, livid, whitish; small, dry, itching ; broad, flat, soft. They came out comparatively early in the disease (second or third week even), and their outbreak was often the signal for the notorious pains in the head and limbs to abate. In many of the cases the pustules overshadowed everything else to such an extent that no primary lesion was thought of. It is clear that Massa thought the disease was of the nature of an eruption; and it is that theoretical bias which in part leads Hensler to distrust his account. But the term pustulœ is used by the contemporary writers generally;2 from whom we learn also that the "pustules'' broke and became foul, corroding or eating sores, that warty excrescences grew from the floor of the latter, and that fatal bleedings sometimes

1   Geschichte der Lustseuche, Part I., 1783, p. 131.
2   See the excellent summary of facts relating to the skin affection of the great epidemic in Haser's Geschichte der Med. u. epid. Krankh., vol. iii. pp. 264 7, 3rd ed.    Jena, 1882.

occurred from the sores about the face. It may be conceded that the same term (pustulœ) was applied also to the primary lesions, and that much of the description relates to the latter; but the occurrence of pustulœ malœ per totum corpus is too explicitly and circumstantially stated to be held in any doubt.
The secondary exanthem of the disease, as we now know it, is all that represents that terrible feature of the great epidemic ; it was the original pustnlœ on the skin that gave it its French name of verole and its English name of pox. Therefore, when a disease of entirely different antecedents and pathology came into common notice,—namely, the contagious pustular skin disease which had been known in Arabia and the East for centuries, and in Europe bore the mediaeval Latin name of variola,1—it was called the lesser pox or the small­pox, because it had as its obvious feature an outbreak of true pustules resembling in their common and loathsome aspect, although by no means in minute or distinctive characters, those so-called pustules which had been the most obvious feature, especially on the face, of the great epidemic that first became notorious as syphilis, having determined the colloquial name of the latter.3 In the subsequent history, syphilis lost its more horrible forms of skin eruption, but it retained in England its colloquial name of pox, which had a literal
1 Used in that specific sense, it is said, first by Constantinus Africanus, who brought the Arabian medical teaching to Salerno about 1060.
2   Beckett  (Phil,   Trans,  xxxi.  p.  56) says, "Great Pockes or Pustules on the surface of their bodies, from whence the Pox is denominated."


WHY  THE COWPOX   WAS SO CALLED.                33
meaning only with reference to the original "pustular" type of its secondary on the skin. The pox, or a pox, meant from the first what it still means ; it did not as a rule mean variola unless it were qualified as the small-pox or lesser pox.
Accordingly, when common usage in the dairy districts of England gave the name of cowpox (at what precise date is not known) to a certain typical or characteristic malady of the cow's teats, that name was given in respect of certain well-understood "pocky " characters, in the Shakespearian sense of the word,1—the foul, ulcerative, and corroding character of the sores on the teats, and their contagious property. It is, indeed, by no means unlikely that it was the sores acquired by the milkers from handling the teats which first led to the affection being named at all ; and there can be no doubt that common usage had fixed upon the salient characters and had recognised the true affinities of the malady when it named it a pox, although it had none of the opprobrious associations of the classical name. Cowpox was the pox of the cows' teats, which milkers were liable to catch ; in Norfolk the name was pap-pox. Its circumstances and mode of production are perfectly simple, and will be stated afterwards in the unpretending language of a Gloucester cow-doctor of Jenner's time (chap. iii. p. 56).
This disease was fancifully represented as an amulet or charm against smallpox, by the idle gossip of credulous persons who listened only to the jingle of the names.    The milkers themselves must have had the
1 As in Hamlet, Act v. Scene 1, 1st clown.

hard teaching of experience and the light of common sense to keep their credulity in check, while the medical men who were called to treat the milkers' sores, as well as the cow-doctors, would be puzzled to see where the resemblance to smallpox came in. A fancy of that kind could not exist along with real, even if empirical, knowledge of the two diseases, let alone the frequent experience that cowpoxed milkers could be inoculated with smallpox, or could catch smallpox like other persons. The fancy was the result of a merely notional, nominal, or verbal dealing with the matter. The kind of apprehension hardly deserves even to be called notional ; for, to a pathologist or epidemiologist, it is as truly nonsense to speak of cowpox becoming smallpox as it is legitimate nonsense to prove that a horse-chest­nut is a chestnut horse.
It was reserved for Dr. Jenner to take up that surprising legend, and make it scientifically passable, despite the impatience and ridicule which his prosaic medical neighbours in the cowpox districts had met it with. It is difficult to acquit Jenner of recklessness, or of culpable laxity, even in the very inception of his idea. There is just one thing that may be pleaded as having misled him in an excusable way, and that is the form of vesicle which cowpox assumes in the first few days of its development on the milker's hand. We know now, since the experiments of Ricord, Henry Lee, and others, that a sore of the pox proper, or of syphilis, when inoculated on the skin, begins in the same kind of whitish vesicle as the milker's cowpox, and that the classical pox and the cowpox are in that, as in other respects, closely paralle http://www.whale.to/vaccines/creighton_b.html#CHAPTER_2._

Браво Z, евала, че сама разбра и си обясни, че не се причинява от Variola major, а е имала различни наименования. Наричал се е също '' огърлица на Венера ''(май така беше точния термин) именно заради характерния обрив в долната част на шията. Според исторически данни Наполеон е бил заразен, и от там е тръгнала цялата мода с високите яки-за да скрият един от типичните симптоми.

Вариола майор е старото название на сифилис. Върни се по- горе.
p.s. and others, that a sore of the pox proper, or of syphilis, when inoculated on the skin, begins in the same kind of whitish vesicle as the milker's cowpox, and that the classical pox and the cowpox are in that, as in other respects, closely paralle

Теб дори и не съм те забелязала, ще прощаваш. Аз също съм майка. Детето ми е с бити ваксини, не съм си помисляла да не ги слагам, въпреки, че съм се страхувала. Не съм кон с капаци, за да мисля, че ваксините са безвредни. Отгледана съм в лекарско семейство с дългогодишна история в медицината на България, имам добра обща култура свързана със здравето. Научена съм да вярам на лекарите, а не на шалатаните. Детето ми прави алергични ларингити от едногодишно някъде - проявили са се след някоя от всички сложени ваксини. Е не ми е и хрумвало да обвинявам ваксините за тях. Не може за всяко неразположение да са виновни те. Лежала съм в болница с детето си, когато беше на две години заради тежко разстройство и обезводняване, и прощавай, че не съм обвинила пак някоя от ваксините за това. Доказателства трябват за странични реакции настъпили в следствие на ваксина, а не квичене по форумите на чели-недочели антиваксърки с незнайни каузи.